Pretend Democrats Advise Obama Not To Run For Re-Election

I want to know where these folks were when Bush was blowing the economy up? I don't recall storms of protests about a war based on a lie. He was President for FOUR years and pretty much f**ked up the country. Two years and escaping a global DEPRESSION, gaining lower taxes, the ability to keep your grown child on your health care plan, able to get health care even if you have a health condition already, and no arbitrary lifetime caps just when you are fighting a catastrophic illness, keep your college kid from selling his/her soul to Sallie Mae for an education, brought us positive global relations, our domestic auto industry is on the way back and a few things else I could list too. Has President Obama done everything you, I and even he wanted? No. Yet, he has done more than many Presidents and especially Bush.
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Pretend Democrats Advise Obama Not To Run For Re-Election

Comic relief. Hilarious! Who knew that the WaPo had such a sense of humor?
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Martin Erzinger, Morgan Stanley Wealth Manager, Won't Face Felony Charges For Hit-And-Run

Disgusted and enraged are just two words that rapidly come to my mind. What is happening to this country? What is happening to humanity? How can one human being hit someone with his car and don't stop to help but call to get his car fixed. No amount of money will give that surgeon back his good health. That level of callousness deserves jail time. Shame on the D.A.! He needs to be fired.
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Three Good Things for Progressives to Take From the Midterm Election Results

M A S S A C H U S E T T S !!! I love my people here! We came out and voted to keep good people on deck fighting for us.



Louisiana.­..congratu­lations New Orleans for putting a D back in office. Also, to Charlie Melancon, it was old school LA fighting and although you deserve to be Senator Melancon Governor Melancon would be a good thing for Louisiana too.



We have to survive TWO years and then ... turn out and reclaim moving the country forward.



Keep the faith Progressives!
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Wells Fargo Repossesses A Fully Paid Off Car (VIDEO)

That was one very nice lady. It was meant for her to be the one to spotlight this crazy stuff. If the cops would have let somebody steal my car from me with my proof of title they too would be handing me cash. It's too bad you have sue folks for them to act decently. The USA way of living ...get use to it!
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John McCain: I'd 'Absolutely' Filibuster 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Repeal (VIDEO)

John McCain: "It's all about meeeeeeeeeeeeeee!



Sad. I'm so darn happy that he is not our President that I can hardly contain myself! Imagine our country with him in charge...Obama's looking real good to you again huh?
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Poverty In Suburbs Increasing Rapidly During Economic Downturn

I was right! Disbursing the poor to the suburbs while gentrifying the cities traps folks in places with poor or nonexistent public transportation, no desire to tax enough to support services that can lead to acquiring living wage jobs, few training facilities like junior colleges or universities, near mandatory automobile ownership, and isolation from the cities that have jobs, public institutions, a tax base, transportation, and are walkable.



I pleaded with folks to forgo the lure of a lawn for the lack of a commute and the reality that shipping the poor out would come to haunt them. Give me city life any day!
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Grand Junction Obama Billboard Depicts Obama As A Muslim, A Gangster, And A Gay Man

I have thought deeply about this poster and I have come to the conclusion that it is racist and more importantly ignorant. I think that it is an indictment of our educational system that someone, anyone can imply or claim that our President is a Nazi or Communist. And yes, you Mr. Artist and your cowardly patron can hide behind art and speech but, I assure you it diminishes whatever impact you desire when you won't stand up for what you believe.



I am grateful that we have a smart, brave, and forward moving President. Our standing in the world has improved and we are on the path in the right direction.



Finally, the President is black...get over it. He blackness is not impeding you or your like minded friends one bit.
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Christine O'Donnell's New Web Ad Channels YouTube Star (VIDEO)

No, it's not true. It makes me steamed when folks pretend that taxes aren't needed to provide services we have come to enjoy, like roads and bridges. I have been to states and towns that pay little or no taxes...Florida does not have personal income tax but, boy you pay real estate taxes and sales taxes. All levels of government need taxes to provide services that we take for granted.



I like calling 911 knowing that if I am attacked the police will come. If my place is on fire the firemen will come and actually put it out not watch it burn. If I am sick the EMS will come and try to help me live while rushing me to a hospital public or private. And most importantly to me that if I have garbage the city or town where I live will provide curbside pickup once or twice a week.



This Libertarian nonsense about taxes is foolish. I do not want my neighbor to be a self appointed sheriff because he owns a gun and the town where I live pays no taxes to hire a professional one. Why go backwards?
About 2010 Elections
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The Power Of Clinton, The Invisibility Of Obama

This is the most banal and basically silly article I have read on HP. President Clinton was a far better President than George Bush I and II singularly and combined. However, his caving for the Republicans on the very things that President Obama must deal with now such as NAFTA (Perot was right about that), unleashing the regulations on the thieving bankers and welfare as we knew it which the long term unemployed could use about now. President Clinton is a diehard DLCer and we are reaping the residuals of his DLC (Republican lite) policies now. That the folks in Kentucky liked President Clinton better than President Obama is more that President Clinton is white and sounds like them.



In TWO years against all odds President Obama has yanked us from the abyss of global depression, carved for a more consumer friendly health care system, got the bankers off of the backs of college students who no longer have to sell their lives to them, spent money that saved jobs (mine included) and repaired some of our crumbling infrastructure. Has he done all that I wanted as a progressive? No. He failed to get the single payer medical system that I dream of every day, the stimulus was way too small, the bankers got off way too easy and Bush II was not brought to trial for the Iraq War and the resulting torture. President Obama has two more years to make more history.
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Incredible Urban Dancing Video In Rainy Oakland Goes Viral (VIDEO)

Art is...dance bringing a smile to a tired face. Those young men were spellbinding. My eyes were delighted to watch them work.
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Chamber Of Commerce Thrust Into Political Firestorm

My questions are: What does Associate Justice Samuel Alito think now? Does he still think that Citizens United v FEC does not mean foriegn money will not be mixed into our political process?



I think his mouthing "That's not true." was a farce.



The Supreme Court majority got exactly what it intended and we are the poorer for it.
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Rick Sanchez: Jon Stewart A 'Bigot,' Jews Run CNN & All Media

Well, that's one way to work yourself out of a job and possibly a career. I remember him from my S. Florida years...I was none too impressed.
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Linda McMahon: 'We Ought To Review' The Minimum Wage

I am stumped too that folks elect people who do not have their interest at heart. What is wrong with America?
About 2010 Elections
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Michigan Official Attacks Gay College Student For Promoting 'Radical Homosexual Agenda'

Geez, is today Crazy-as-H*LL day? From where are these folks coming?



The important missing piece of the new health care program is a strong mental health care componant. Folks really need a healing!
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Jerome Corsi Wants Obama To 'Renounce Lucifer'

Bwhaaaa! ROTFLMAO! Crazy....when I see that guy's picture I hear Gnarls Barkley's CRAZY playing. Can this election season get any more nuts? Why do we treat these folks as if their lights are all on? Obviously, the weakness in the new health care program is what must be the paucity of mental health help for the delusional.



Mr. Corsi, seek help!
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Lanny Davis Attacks Maddow For Clinton Criticism: 'Worst Element Of Our Party'

My grievance is not what Lanny Davis said but that he even has a platform to say anything. He is a DLC stooge and a Clinton lemming. He brings no value to the table except to do his master's bidding...WHY?



Why has Bill after SEVEN months gotten all heated up over what said in March now? This all seems a little too self-serving to me. Are they trying to destroy the Democratic party like the Republicans have done theirs?
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Bill Clinton Strikes Back At Rachel Maddow

That's not true. President Obama has achieved some remarkable legislation health care, staving off a second great depression, parity in pay for women (the Lilly Ledbetter law), an agreement for countries to get rid of nuclear products that can be made into weapons grade material, a middle class tax cut, and an agency that protects consumers against the more grievous financial shenanigans from banks. While that that is an incomplete list of accomplishments and some of them are not exactly the perfect legislation we may have desired, they are still quite an achievement for any young President but especially for one who had to hit the ground running with so many disasters looming. I am not disappointed as impatient. I am willing to give him time before I write him off as a bad change.
About Rachel Maddow
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Bill Clinton Strikes Back At Rachel Maddow

He did not veto it because he was and still is a DLC thinker. The DLC is the worst thing that has happened to Democrats in this country. Rahm Emanuel is a DLC thinker hence the right wing nut Democrats like Ben Nelson and Evan Bayh. To see them as corporate loving hacks (See Harold Ford) is to begin to get the picture.



I do not hate ex. President Clinton I just am not enamored of him since I think that he gave away the store to the Republicans and big business which propped up Bush to expand and finish the job.



The best thing about the Clinton years was the employment picture. Now, I give his serious props for that.
About Rachel Maddow
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MSNBC's New Anchor Lineup

Keith, Rachel and the new guy seems to be a decent change. I don't watch any of the other folks with the rare exception of Ed Schultz. Ed gets too worked up for me sometimes but his heart is in the right place.I see Ed in small doses.



The other folks may as well be CNN.
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Salvatore Giunta To Get Medal Of Honor, 1st Living Afghan War Veteran Receiving One

It is a great honor to call Salvatore Giunta a hero. Congratulations on receiving the Medal of Honor. You are indeed worthy of it. Thank you for what you did stepping into harms way to save brother soldiers. This country is blessed by you and all soldiers like you who stand in the gap to keep us safe and free. Thank you, thank you, thank you!



From a proud and very grateful citizen
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Quran Burning Pastor: 'We Are Definitely Prepared To Give Our Lives' (VIDEO)

I disagree with your choice of the word zealot. Ignorant attention seeking fool I think is more accurate. As a preacher you would think that he has read John 10:16. If he had then he would know that Jesus claimed more than his followers (Christians) and Jews.



What galls me though is unnecessarily putting our troops in jeopardy in a dumb political attention grabbing stunt. Hillary is right we should simply ignore him.
About Islam
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Obama To Back $50 Billion Infrastructure Plan For Roads, Rail, Air Travel

When the Republicans were spending like drunken sailors barely a peep was said about fiscal responsibility. We simply endured Voodoo Economics. Now, they claim fiscal restraint sans the rich folks' tax correction due in December which they claim need not be Paygo.They do want to reduce entitlement programs (things for middle and lower income Americans) so they can pay less taxes.



50 billion dollars is again too small of an amount to do real aid to people who are unemployed. What is urgently needed is a WPA type program rebuilding our infrastructure to compete with European countries and China who invested their monies in modernizing their infrastructure.



Since many unemployed Americans lostjobs that they will never return to we also need a CETA program that will retrain people for exist ing and future jobs. The only way out of this mess is to get people employed and contributing to our tax base.y. This means putting people back to work in jobs that pay a living wage.



Finally, it is time to focus on the banks that were lent taxpayers' dollars who are refusing to lend to small and medium sized businesses that hire people to work. We missed the mark by not nationalizing them when they were bleeding us. It is high time to invest in us. The banks must be forced to lend to American businesses that hire American workers. Pay us back with loans to us. Put Americans back to work!
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Sharron Angle Claims Unemployment Insurance 'Really Doesn't Benefit Anyone'

I laughed. I laughed not because what Ms. Angle says is funny but because my disagreement about US health care is that we do not provide enough mental health care for our people. Ms. Angle could use many, many sessions and for me that would be taxpayer money well spent.



Having experienced unemployment that lasted over a year I can say UI provides the difference between abject poverty and barely hanging on. Barely hanging on gives you the tiny space/room to search for work. Abject poverty claims your full attention trying to get the basics of life...food, clothing and shelter. There is no time/space/room to do much else even though a job would eliminate having to search for basics. Ms. Angle and apparently lots of other Republicans and Tea-people are bereft of the unemployment experience. They have no frame of reference which is why they can spout such nonsense.



May God grant them the experience of unemployment so they can be more charitable to towards folks who need help (that they paid for anyway) until they get work.
About 2010 Elections
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Fire At Tennessee Mosque Construction Site Now Under Federal Arson Investigation

Terror is the ability to strike fear in the hearts of people with one demonstrable act. During the beginnings of the modern Civil Rights Movement it took the form of bombing churches. The country was aghast at the killing of four girls in a church in Birmingham, Alabama. It is my prayer that we do not wait until there are deaths before standing up for our fellow Americans who worship the same God as Christians and Jews where their right to do so is guaranteed by the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution.



This aggression from the ignorant must be stared down by the people of goodwill of every faith and those who are non-religious too. It is simply a question of recognizing our humanity. Let us not be silent. We could be next. They have no shame.
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Five Years After Katrina, New Orleanians Still Feel The Scars

Five years and I cannot make myself to return to the new New Orleans. The city I was born and raised in no longer exists. It is now heading towards gentrification and a rather timely land grab.



The educational system is a hodgepodge where if your alumni is weak the schools that educated generations of family and friends are discarded and some experimental school stuffed in its place.



My family still lives in New Orleans. It is in their blood. They have rebuilt homes that laid under 9 feet of nasty water. They have knitted together their lives and bear the pain of separation from their eldest member because there are no comparable services for seniors in New Orleans as is where we live now. They survive.



I shall always remember the day we left. We took only a few articles of clothes with the intent of staying in a motel some distance away from the hurricane. What we planned to be a couple of days away from home has turned out to be five years for me in a different region and five years of hard struggle for my siblings and their children in New Orleans.



The city I love is gone and a stranger rises in its place...slowly.
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Franklin Graham, Evangelical Minister: Obama's 'Problem Is That He Was Born A Muslim' (VIDEO)

Exactly, the entire point of Christianity is freewill. What pains me most about Franklin Graham is his failure to understand what Jesus said about "sheep of many folds" commonly taken as people with different names and beliefs in God. The allusion is that Jesus loves all who claim him even if we don't. Also, you could look back at Jonah and his resistance and prejudice towards a group of people he found unworthy but that God insisted he serve willingly or willingly.



The Christianity I know and believe in is expansive and based on love and fellowship. Franklin's seems based on fear and loathing. That is sad.
About Barack Obama
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Obama To AFL-CIO: I Know You're Frustrated But Hang With Me

He has done more for this country in two years than several Presidents in their full terms. Health care, saving the auto industry, and the consumer protection bureau to name but a very few things that have been accomplished by President Obama in TWO YEARS. Is it all we need? No. Were even the accomplishments imperfect? Yes. I can say this regardless as yo what health preconditions I have I cannot be turned away from health insurers any more. For me That is very significant.



Am I satisfied? No. I elected a man not Superman. He has a good team but the other side plays hard and dirty and he is still in there fighting. He fights differently from what I would want but he fights, admits his errors and moves on. I too at this point see no reason to vote for someone else.
About Barack Obama
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Dan Maes, Colorado Gubernatorial Candidate, Warns Of U.N. Plot To Destroy America With Bike-Sharing Programs

One of the critical flaws in our health care system is the lack of support for the provision of mental health services. Obviously, some folks are dearly in need of it.
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Dan Maes, Colorado Gubernatorial Candidate, Warns Of U.N. Plot To Destroy America With Bike-Sharing Programs

This article would be funny if it were about a Colbert skit. Coming from someone wanting help make critical decisions in Congress this terrifies me. What is wrong with people? Even if you thought that stuff it should never be spoken aloud to confirm that you are crazy as hell. Is this the best that we have to offer?



"I question America."- Fannie Lou Hamer
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Great Summer Reading

I highly recommend The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo movie and the book too. I stumbled onto this movie in a desperate search for entertainment on Netflix. After skipping over it I finally succumbed and watched it. AWESOME! Any way, it is a foreign film and so has subtitles. The story is so good that you will not notice the reading part. It is a murder mystery with some action kind of film. There will be an American version in a couple of years but why wait?

After seeing the movie I decided to read the book. It is first in a trilogy. The first book is  The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. The second book is The Girl Who Played with Fire. The last book is The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest. What makes these books more interesting is that the writer Stieg Larsson died in 2004 all three manuscripts done. Readers suspect that there is a fourth manuscript, a MYSTERY!

The film is surprisingly close to the book. They are great summer reading.

Essence's White Fashion Director Ellianna Placas Causes Controversy

I left as a reader of Essence years ago when Marcia Gillespie left. The fiction and poetry section have not since been repeated. As fir the fashions...when they stopped showing black women in fashionable clothes with curses that nixed it forever for me. I've been marching to my own drummer ever since.



I had a subscription from their second year until Marcia left and stopped buying them a news stands and stores after the skinny women appeared.



My sister was a charter subscriber who ended her subscription for about the same reasons.



I still miss the old Essence. Calling up Emerge too. Once we had some great black magazines.
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Shirley Sherrod, a Family Farmer's Friend

I love Willie Nelson because he has put time in on the issue of family farms for years. Holding on to the land and producing seasonal locally grown food is exactly the direction we should be heading. Family farms provide the means to get there.



I also applaud a man that stands up for his friends and speaks the truth about them. Mrs. Sherrod's work must continue because frankly we need her and a lot more like her in the corner of the family farmers.
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White House Apologizes To Shirley Sherrod

A good woman was smeared. An administration that is legislatively successful is perceived as weak kneed and the culprits have shifted the blame off onto both parties. What a shame this is for all of us. Mrs Sherrod deserves apologies, reinstatement, and her good name back. Which ones of these things won't she get?
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Dan Gainor, Right-Wing Media Critic, Offers Cash For Assault On Alan Grayson

Alan Grayson is getting on that guy's nerves. I'd have more respect for Gainor if he did his own dirty work instead of paying someone. On the other hand Grayson I think could hand him his head. The sad thing is this is what now passes for political discourse.



"Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King
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Glenn Beck: I Might Be Going Blind

Well this hits me on my street. I understand the fear and the resolve concerning losing one's sight. As a Christian I feel pity for Mr. Beck and the road he must travel. I am on that road too and it helps to be kind to others you may need when darkness is all you will have to see.



May God's mercy and blessings be upon him and to us all.



Now, back o our regular programming!
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David Vitter Thinks Rachel Maddow Doesn't Look Like A Woman

Please, please Senator Vitter go on Rachel's show and say anything. Then we'll see how tough YOU are.



I just want to know in advance so I can have my popcorn ready.
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Is Shirley Jackson One Of The Greatest American Writers?

The Lottery still holds up. I used to use it with my students every session because some of the creepy thinking in the story are the same creepy thinking we do now following rituals. She is one of my top five writers for my students.I only wish more people would read her work.
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Christiane Amanpour Starting On ABC's 'This Week' On August 1

I just may break my long standing boycott of Sunday Teevee talk shows to see if she will have one that does not make me retch.



I guess I am curious.
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Tim Geithner Opposes Nominating Elizabeth Warren To Lead New Consumer Agency

I want her to head the Consumer Protection Agency but, like you I'd be wildly happy if she got Geithner's job because I just don't trust him or Summers at all.
About Financial Crisis
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Sue Myrick's Latest Conspiracy Theory Is Like The Plot Of A Bad Movie

Some folks just are in need of a healing. What's up with NC that they field so many politicians that need to stop watching teevee especially that 24 hours show?
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Ben Nelson Bucks Party, Helps GOP Block Jobless Aid

I'd vote for that! You have to Republicans in the pocket book for them to do the right thing. Additionally, it is not hard to see others flail about when your people are OK. Something tells me if suddenly NE's unemployment shot up then Old Ben would be singing another tune. He is a very effective politician when it benefits him and his people only.



I do not understand how Senator Ben Nelson can sleep knowing that his vote is destroying families. Unemployment is not a joy even with unemployment insurance. Penniless, it is a nightmare. Two years ago I faced unemployment with no benefits (my benefits ran out I was hired for a new job but it would not start for 3 months) it only lasted 3 months but those were the worst three months of my life. The stress of no income has no descriptive word for me to use. Remember I had a job coming up and it still was hell. I had family supporting me and still it bother me not to earn my own money.



I am sure that 99% of the people who need unemployment insurance would so much rather a job and a sense of more security than a hundred member club of rich people deciding how and whether you will survive this economic crisis. They ought to be ashamed but they are not.
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Despite Obama's Lofty Words, Scientific Integrity Rules Are Lagging

Let's see, it is year two and the President who inherited 2 wars, a failing economy, high and climbing unemployment, a messed up bureaucracy, angry constituents, a hostile world, and this year a blown oil well out of control has not kept all of his promises. Dan, I sense your impatience and marked disappointment here. I too, want the President to get it all done yet I understand that he does not have a cape and a phone booth to wa-lah! change into SUPER PRESIDENT able to make 8 years of purposeful deconstruction of government STOP! and become competent, honest, and useful.



I would like President Obama to compromise less about almost everything. I agree that things should be expedited. Science is not only a discipline but an industry, a vital industry to our present and future. Having rules in place to insure scientific integrity concerning political interference is extraordinarily important it simply is not the most important thing at this time. I have worked in governmental bureaucracies before the meetings on constructing rules and policies take too long. I concede that it may be the nature of the beast. The scientists know it that is why they are squealing to you.
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Georgia Democratic Candidate Unveils Provocative Ad Featuring Shooting Victim's Mother (VIDEO)

Fanned and faved. The Georgia ad is powerful. As a southerner I know that things like this happen much more frequently than we would believe. A badge and a gun are powerful in America and doubly so in the south. Prosecutor have been known to favor the police over a victim because they rely on the police for their cases and winning is what lawyers on both sides focus on. It is not about justice.



Concerning the unemployed: Write a note to your Senator who voted against extending unemployment letting him or her know that you have indeed made up your mind to vote against them whenever they run for election and enthusiastically work on behalf on their opponent. They could not find it in their interest to vote for your well being and darn-it you can't seem to find it in you to vote for their political well being. Enough of those letters and maybe we can have some movement on extending unemployment.
About Video
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Van Jones Rails Against 'That Little Idiot Box': Cable News

I agree. I understand the role and function of compromise. What we are now getting as a result is a series of flawed and practically useless laws. Some ideas need to be accepted up front and as is rather than the messes we get from government trying to appease the unappeased. The Civil War would not have needed to be fought if the Founders had not compromised on the humanity of Africans and ended enslavement in this country's beginnings. Some things must not be compromised!
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Jon Stewart Rips Fox News For Their Fear Of Muslims (VIDEO)

Annnd, it's a hit ! It's a high fly straight outta the park! Jon Stewart is on a roll.
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Terry Savage, Sun-Times Columnist, Yells At Little Girls At Lemonade Stand

What a JackKass!
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Serena Williams Wins Wimbledon In Dominating Performance

I just want to look like either Williams sister. I love to watch them play. Keep workin' it girls!
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Nevada Tea Party Candidate Sharron Angle Walks Back Comment On 'Taking..Out' Harry Reid (VIDEO)

"Angle spokesman Stacy said in a statement that Reid is "figuring out ways to twist a larger historical statement Angle was making about the origins of separation of church and state. He's doing it because he's terrified of having a real discussion about jobs and the economy."



Senator Harry Reid may frustrate the heck out of me with his approach to getting things done but, I would never ever think of him as terrified. I certainly don't think he should be terrified of the lady running against him. Why does she smile while saying such creepy things?
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Matt Taibbi's Lara Logan Takedown: 'Lara Logan, You Suck'

Who is Lara Logan? The reason I like Rachel Maddow is because she asks the tough questions I as a citizen want my reporters to ask. I am sorry for McCrystal because he seems to be a true believer but, COIN is an awful war strategy and thanks to Mr. Hastings I have a good idea as to why.



Who needs more talking heads on teevee mouthing the party line rather than telling us the truth? With lives at stake it is imperative to have sharp questions being asked by the fourth estate who are supposed to ask them because we the people generally don't get to ask them ourselves.



Who is Lara Logan and why should I believe what she says?
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It's the Jobs, Stupid

"the Administration's reticence on the jobs issue is the reported counsel of the White House political staff that the public cares more about deficit-reduction than about jobs. "



What are they smoking? It is JOBS! Jobs is what we need. Infrastructure is where they are needed. WPA and CETA jobs are needed. Frankly, we could do with going back to MAKING things...REAL things unlike derivatives. We don't even make bullets here any more!



Mr. President, FIRE anyone who is telling you deficits are of more concern than jobs... they are lying.



Workers pay TAXES! Taxes fill the treasury and from there we pay our bills including the massive interest from 8 Bush years when deficits seemed not so bad at by Republicans.



Buck-up sir! Go out on the stump and keep saying what America needs most now are jobs!



I'm not voting for anyone regardless of level of government or even political party unless there are talking about acting on bringing jobs to America for Americans. We need the money.



We need a WPA AND CETA types programs now! Spend the money on getting Americans back to work!
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Michael Hastings, Rolling Stone's McChrystal Profiler, Says Troops Are Happy That General Was Ousted

The Russians were right! It is well past time to get out of Afghanistan. When Americans learn to spell the country's name correctly then it is time to leave. Our billions of war dollars can be spent on JOBS, making things, selling real things, and learning.



How about funding oil drilling/producing/tanker crashing accident equipment and procedures development? I would rather spend money there than on a war we don't understand why we are losing or worse why we are there anyway.
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